Britt & Mya talk about what led them to create the podcast and why they are excited to participate.
Dr. Britt Yamamoto has been fortunate to be on a very eclectic professional journey–including stops as an organic farmer on two continents, a full-time professor, and being the founder of several social businesses serving Africa, Asia-Pacific, Latin America, and the Middle East. In addition to his leadership with iLEAP, he is also a Clinical Associate Professor in the University of Washington Department of Global Health, a Founding Partner of Solutions for Online Integrated Learning (SOIL), and the CEO and co-founder of Perennial, a leadership training organization that designs and facilitates transformational experiences for seasoned social leaders from around the world. He holds a BA degree from the University of Michigan, an MSc from the University of California at Davis, and a PhD from the University of Washington. Britt grew up in southern California, but now enjoys making his home in Seattle with his family and Princess Leia Organa, the dog.
Dr. Mya Fisher is the Chief Executive and Transformation Officer for Global Equity Forward. She brings a wealth of experience in the areas of equity, inclusion, and education from an international perspective to her executive role. As a woman of color who has greatly benefited from international experiences and opportunities, Mya’s 20-year career illustrates a passion and commitment to equity and inclusion, particularly as a leader in international program management, exchange, and cross-cultural training for U.S.-Japan relations. She is also an enthusiastic supporter of next-generation talent. Encouraging young people to embrace their leadership potential, pursue interests in international opportunities, and discover their place and purpose in the world motivates and inspires her every day.
Pod Episode 1: Britt Yamamoto & Mya Fisher
[00:00:00]Britt: Hi, and welcome to off-track on purpose. [00:00:15] I am your cohost Britt Yamamoto,
Mya: And I am the co-host Mya Fisher
Britt: We are so excited to welcome you to our new podcast. Off-track on purpose. We are here to re-imagine academic and faculty life.
So Mya. What brought you [00:00:30] to be interested in doing this podcast,
Mya: besides you inviting me with the idea, you and I have had conversations about our experiences in graduate school and both you and I are not within the [00:00:45] Academy as it's been traditionally imagined, or as we'd been trained to be a part of the Academy. And I, I felt like in recent years, I've used a lot of my skills. That were part of my academic training, in jobs outside, [00:01:00] not directly teaching, but really applying a lot of what I've learned.
And in our conversations, it sounded like we were not alone, but I had never really met anybody else who had a similar pathway or experience. So in our [00:01:15] conversations, it sounded like that might be something we want to share and see if there were other people like us out there. How about you?
Britt: You know, when I think back to my academic journey and particularly being in graduate school, if I'm being completely honest, I don't have the most positive memories of it.
[00:01:30] but to your earlier point, I really did get a lot out of the experience and how it shaped how I think, how I write, So many of the ways that I communicate on the whole, it was a very, transformational experience for me. And I [00:01:45] also experienced many of the, let's just say shortcomings the Academy.
I think one of the things that the academic environment really struggles with is creating a space for people to be open and honest, [00:02:00] vulnerable, and human with each other. Uh, and so is as sort of negative and terrible as that might sound, What really brought me to this podcast is wanting to create a space where we could have those have those open conversations.
[00:02:15] Even though for me, graduate school may have been several years ago. I'm still teaching graduate students now. And of course having, a parallel career in doing other work. But I know that, um, when I've been able to work with grad students and have those more open [00:02:30] conversations, I, and even other faculty members. There's something, there there's something that, that that's drawing people to have those talks.
Mya: Yeah. And it's interesting that you talk about sort of creating the spaces to connect with one another and to sort of be vulnerable and share the [00:02:45] experiences. And part of what excites me about this podcast is that it creates spaces with our guests, but then also hopefully with our listeners.
Who may feel like they're the only person there they're going through this alone. [00:03:00] And hopefully by hearing the stories of other people who have successfully not only navigated grad school, but have gotten out with all of the scar that may have come with it, but gone [00:03:15] on to have meaningful and impactful careers. I think will help people have a more expansive idea of what you could do with an advanced degree and a PhD that in the [00:03:30] limits or the confines of your own program, you may not be able to see. So. Hopefully by sharing these experiences, people feel less alone and we'll also be able to see the potential and the possibilities of what they could do when they're done.
Britt: That last point is [00:03:45] so important because there is this natural, almost gravitational narrowing of a field of vision that happens when one is pursuing an advanced degree. Much of it is by design, right? you're being. Recognized for your [00:04:00] unique individual work. And so therefore the system is structured to separate you from other people.
it's not designed to be a collaborative structure, people wonder why academics have such a hard time working with other people? Well, it's because they've been trained to [00:04:15] not do that. Right. And actually to be largely critical and skeptical of other people's ideas and thinking. So, not to put too much responsibility on the system, but. there's this sort of hyper specialization, there's this, sort of [00:04:30] decoupling from what's happening. Let's just say in the non-academic realm, I hesitate to say real-world because it's all real, but in the non-academic realm and so.
That is not to suggest that it is not worth pursuing and it doesn't have great value, but it [00:04:45] stands by it. I mean, the Academy, it stands as this really antiquated institution that may be the most antiquated in our modern systems. it's become this artifact of an imagined way of learning, [00:05:00] that is deeply questionable, how relevant some of those things continue to be like the individualized specialized approach to learning and knowledge creation, right.
And to protect and carve out your spot. I didn't have the language in grad school [00:05:15] to talk about that I didn't have the community that was able to language that and be like, yeah, that's what's happening. Uh, and as someone who really believes in the power of language to help clarify how to have that, [00:05:30] I feel like I could have.
I would have felt differently. I don't know if I would have done anything differently in terms of pursuing and all of that, but I certainly would have felt different and, and I think that that's worth something significant.
Mya: I often wonder and people ask me if you could do it over [00:05:45] again.
Would you have done it the same way or would you be doing something else? Um, or would you have gone to a different program? Those kinds of, sort of what ifs and, when I am out in the world and I'm doing my work, whether it's evaluation or advising or [00:06:00] teaching, I do feel like the training that I got was bar none, top notch.
And I'm really proud of it. It's, it's a sort of conflict where I'm really proud of and, excited and feel [00:06:15] accomplished in one way. But then, at the same time, because I didn't go the academic route, that accomplishment that I feel is somewhat diminished by the fact that those within institutions.
Don't feel the same way. [00:06:30] but outside of the Academy, know, people respect and value my contributions and want me to work and think I do good work. So it's always, for me, this conflict, there is this feeling conflict, right? [00:06:45] About how you feel about what you've been able to do, but then how the institution makes you feel.
Because you're not connected to it. and that tension, I think I still am processing at [00:07:00] times, but it's hard because yes, I think I do it again and I'm pretty sure I probably do it the same way that I did it this time around in spite of, the way it has made me feel in some ways, but. I also value [00:07:15] the experience and what it's taught me about myself.
So, would you do it again?
Britt: Hmm, that's a good question.
Yes. I don't know that I would do it the same way though. part of [00:07:30] my origin story is that When I reentered graduate school, I had been about six years between my undergraduate completion and then reentering a master's program. And during that time was very involved with sustainable agriculture.
I was a farmer and was [00:07:45] involved in different food-based justice work. And so when I reentered graduate school, it was largely because I was. Finding myself, very frustrated with the limits of my capacity to have what I perceive to be having an impact in the work I was [00:08:00] doing. And I felt like I needed a credential.
And so I was just terribly arrogant going into graduate school. Like I'm not going to learn anything. I'm just coming here to get my degree and go and. As life often does. I was humbled very quickly, [00:08:15] thankfully. but kindly by, by some wonderful professors, during my master's program at UC Davis who introduced me to all kinds of critical theory, that really helped me to look at my work in such a different way.
And so that, that master's [00:08:30] program, that master's experience was so different than. Eventually going to the university of Washington for my PhD. And, I think the biggest difference for me was the nature of the relationships that I had with my faculty. And so I think I was maybe. [00:08:45] naive because I had such a positive, powerful, close relationship with my advisors at Davis, that when I came to UW, that it was going to be similar.
and so I struggled with that. I struggled with missing that. And I think I would pursue it. And I, am very grateful for [00:09:00] the education that I got. at the university of Washington. And I think some of it was just my own expectations about what the program or what graduate school or a PhD program should offer, at the human level.
and so, I think I would, and particularly where I [00:09:15] feel like the training has led me what it's. how it shaped my thinking, my communication, in a indirect way, my teaching, I was not trained, like many PhD students, you don't learn to teach in graduate school.
but it was such [00:09:30] a deep passion of mine and something that I had familiarity doing. informal. Non-formal education that it just became embedded with, what I was doing in grad school. So I haven't really thought too much about that until you asked me. So I appreciate the question.
[00:09:45] the point that you made about relationships with faculty, I think is also something that. I've thought about with this podcast how could it impact faculty, or what could faculty [00:10:00] learn or understand or how might their perspectives be expanded or shifted?
In hearing some of these experiences, from guests on the podcasts. have you thought about that at all?
Well, you know, I do currently, have a [00:10:15] faculty appointment at university of Washington and also in the university of Vermont. I certainly know that many of my colleagues who are not full-time.
Academics and who are largely practitioners, have a lot to say about how they show up in the classroom and the way that students [00:10:30] experience them, which is very different than those that are say tenured or tenure track faculty who have a different set of expectations and pressures on them.
and in R1 institution that is not teaching, right? So. I think, my hope would be is that yeah, that even [00:10:45] faculty, even those who are tenured faculty who may have been in the institution for decades, find some inspiration or new perspective on themselves and their work. And again, just re-imagining what faculty life looks like.
I expect that. In [00:11:00] many of these conversations, maybe because of who we both are, but invariably we will be talking about the Academy in the context of late capitalism and just the way in which production and, particularly a [00:11:15] industrialized approach has shaped academic life.
And certainly faculty life. And so there's just like, because so many parts of our world there just has to be a different way and there has to be a better way. And I'm very, well-meaning brilliant [00:11:30] kind, loving people, have been Twisted crushed and spit out academic structures that that we've created.
And so I would love to be inspired myself by more stories of people and particularly [00:11:45] programs and places that are doing amazing things. And I know that they're out there because, I've had the privilege of working with some and. Having of course friends that are doing this work.
And I think it's those stories that I would love this podcast to be able to lift up.
Mya: And the idea [00:12:00] about inspiration and, programs that are also doing great things. I think so often we do hear about Graduate school experiences being these battles, scarred situations, which is true.
And it doesn't take away from people who do have those experiences, but I [00:12:15] do think that, being able to balance, but also share places where people have really felt supported and encouraged and, have had people advocate or stand in the gap for them or, pull them along, are also [00:12:30] needed.
And. need to be shared if that's the right way to think about it.
Something that makes the narrative of the graduate experience, more complex, more nuanced, more shaded with all intentions, with, the, the combination of experiences and [00:12:45] feelings that we all have to carry and make sense of and work through and so it's not just about one right way or just any one way of going through grad school, but the many ways that people do get through. And are still [00:13:00] whole human beings on the other end on the other side. And, as we said, go on to do great and meaningful, impactful work.
Britt: I think just the intent that we hold to have what we call heart-centered conversations in the context of academic life broadly [00:13:15] defined is in itself a very radical intent. academic spaces are, I don't think I've ever seen one that is intentionally inviting people's hearts to take up space. It is by nature and intellectual [00:13:30] head driven space.
And so, I think having that intent and inviting those kinds of conversations will yield totally different texture too. The academic conversation. And I think what you just said is really important because it's not all bad, It doesn't [00:13:45] have to be all terrible stories about, how we barely made it through graduate school.
So we would certainly welcome those kinds of stories as well. but It's such a transformational impactful experience. And there's just at least from my [00:14:00] experience, there's no real meaningful way to reflect on what was that? Not so much into the minutia level, but just like on the whole thing, you know, and it takes up so like, PhDs is.
Six seven, eight, 10 years. Right. It's such a significant chunk [00:14:15] of time. and I imagine that those and other professions, you know, people are pursuing MDs or JDS or other, degrees that take multiple years. you don't really have that time and space to ask that question of what was that.
Mya: And spaces are [00:14:30] places that contain people, right? The idea that you can unpack and process and just be able to share in community or in a place with other people, I think is also unique about the podcast and just the opportunity [00:14:45] to have these spaces and these conversations. With other people, right.
and in community. And I think given, the time and place where we are in the world today, I think community is important to me is special and [00:15:00] communities can always grow. and so the more people that are able to be part of the conversation and have conversations. To your point about transformation I think it has the opportunity to transform how people can get through graduate school and [00:15:15] also some of these environments, in programs.
Britt: So much of your work is focused on equity and inclusion these days. And I'm wondering how you imagine those conversations being present in the podcast.
Mya: So I was actually [00:15:30] talking to with some faculty yesterday about the role that environments can play in creating the emotional sense and space that connotes, invitation and belonging, [00:15:45] and that can foster people's feelings like they can contribute and be authentic. And they were just speaking about their classrooms and things like office hours and the idea of how you [00:16:00] present the opportunity of space, particularly in something like this, when it's virtual, how do you open up the opportunity for people to be able to share and be able to feel like they can show up and say what they need to say and not [00:16:15] be judged. and so for me, as part of these conversations, I see it a lot as me. I love to listen, and, hear, and I also ask a lot of questions. I asked a lot of questions because I'm trying to [00:16:30] understand where people are coming from.
If I'm hearing what they actually want me to hear. and so in our discussion with our different guests, part of that is, creating the opportunity for them to, share their authentic experience that they [00:16:45] had. if there are things that are different from mine, trying to understand how they're different.
and also, again, not judging because we all have to go and navigate our own way. then also to hear and think about, for me, [00:17:00] it's also about what they're doing with their degrees out in the world. Right? So you and I are doing social impact work, And anything that involves people involved, connection and engagement.
And so how people are navigating, what [00:17:15] they've learned and transforming and utilizing those skills in real ways that, impact the lives of people, to me, is really about. Inclusion and equity, equity being, finding ways to provide, the same equal access and [00:17:30] opportunity. we won't necessarily all have the same outcomes, but for me, it's about the entry points.
So, you know, what kind of work are people doing to create equal access, equal opportunity. and then I'm always interested in how. Connected people [00:17:45] remain to their programs or their institutions once they're done. I know a lot of my Alma maters in the current climate are trying to engage alumni, in issues on their campuses or trying to better understand their experiences when they were students, what they [00:18:00] did right or wrong and how they can change that for the current students.
So one of the things I'm interested too Is what our alumni is level of connections to their programs and institutions. And do they have any thoughts possibly about giving back or, [00:18:15] helping in some way, to help their programs continue to do what they're doing. If they're doing things well or provide feedback or suggestions or offer to help.
Help them do better. I hadn't actually thought of that until just now. [00:18:30]
Britt: Well, I hope that's something that our guests experience too, where it's, the kind of, opportunity to articulate something that may have just been dormant or just below the surface and bringing that out, you know? In my experience with listening to podcasts, those are [00:18:45] the ones that really stick it's where there is not a scripting or sort of staging of questions and responses, but there's that real exploration where you don't necessarily even know what you're going to say, because maybe you haven't even said it before.
I think if [00:19:00] we create it in an environment where those types of things are coming out, I think we're, we are invariably going to have a successful, set of interviews because, people would be sharing their true selves.
Mya: We hope you're as interested and anticipating the conversations [00:19:15] that we are going to have with our guests. We're excited to explore these ideas and these experiences, in ways that can be transformative.
Britt: And I think, just to underscore it, I hope that we have some light and fun conversations with people as well.
So that's also one of [00:19:30] the defining marks of a lot of academic conversations is if they feel, I don't know, sometimes unnecessarily heavy, But anyway, to be able to have a bit of lightness and laughter and being able to, explore those [00:19:45] places that are not typically explored when we think about the pursuit of an advanced degree. We look forward to sharing our conversations with you. We look forward to feedback that you might have on the conversations that we're [00:20:00] having with our guests. And we certainly would look forward to any suggestions or recommendations that you might have for people that we should be talking to.
Mya: I enjoy laughing. So there will be laughter..
Britt: There will be laughter. [00:20:15]